xevolrebx ([info]xevolrebx) wrote in [info]ftm,
2009-10-21 14:34:00

?

Just as a matter of curiosity:

As a community we've discussed repeatedly how and why the word "tranny" is offensive and should not be used by transmen (it's not ours to reclaim). I personally think it's dependant on the space one is in, but do respect when it is not appropriate (such as here). I'm just curious, however, why it's used repeatedly in the interests section of the community if the it's not a word we support using.
Tags: language

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  • 61 comments

[info]derex_g

October 21 2009, 22:14:22 UTC 2 years ago

I've often wondered this, myself ...

[info]murdercake

October 21 2009, 22:28:37 UTC 2 years ago

I do think it's a commonly known word, and might be one of the only ones some trans people, especially the newly out, or those new to the community, may know. I think one reason for including it in the "interests" of this community is that it might help those people find us in a search.

I could be totally wrong, but that was my take.

[info]xevolrebx

October 21 2009, 22:38:20 UTC 2 years ago

I guess that's fair, but how is someone searching for the community going to know that we don't use that word here if that's the way they found us?.. and does it really need to be used in five different spellings/phrasings making up like.. 15% of the content of the interests section..

[info]icarus_after

October 21 2009, 22:45:33 UTC 2 years ago

that part is a very good point. i understand leaving it in, but if it remains there should be some specific language about it somewhere, i think.

[info]murdercake

2 years ago

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[info]icarus_after

2 years ago

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[info]murdercake

2 years ago

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[info]icarus_after

October 21 2009, 22:44:15 UTC 2 years ago

yeah, i thought that, too. and that, whether i like it or not, some people label their experiences/identities with that word. i am open to taking those out of the interests, but i do wonder if they don't serve the purpose above of channeling people to support regardless of whether we like their language.

i have made no bones about the fact that i fucking hate that word used casually. i do use the word tranny sometimes; in a letter i wrote to debra dickerson about her use of the word in a column, i explained to her that, "tranny is the word i think of when i hate myself the most." "tranny" describes, for me, the more miserable and hurtful portions of this experience.
/trangent.
anyway, i am open to taking it out but i also understand that there may be compelling reasons to include them, even though it is a word i really, really hate.

[info]gender_euphoric

October 21 2009, 23:59:26 UTC 2 years ago

trangent? ha ha.

[info]ezraisabear

October 22 2009, 03:06:15 UTC 2 years ago

If the mods might be up for changing the interests, would it be possible to consider getting rid of "dyke"?

[info]robinhoodvandal

2 years ago

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[info]ezraisabear

2 years ago

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[info]xevolrebx

2 years ago

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[info]bikerioting

2 years ago

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[info]homo_impetus

2 years ago

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[info]slightlywee

2 years ago

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[info]ex_drakyn

2 years ago

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[info]icarus_after

2 years ago

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[info]homo_impetus

2 years ago

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[info]icarus_after

2 years ago

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[info]homo_impetus

2 years ago

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[info]icarus_after

2 years ago

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[info]homo_impetus

2 years ago

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[info]homo_impetus

2 years ago

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[info]tommytesto

October 22 2009, 16:33:19 UTC 2 years ago

thank you, icarus_after

'"tranny is the word i think of when i hate myself the most." "tranny" describes, for me, the more miserable and hurtful portions of this experience.'

If there is a way for me to use this quote respectfully, with attribution or not, for trainings especially, I would be very grateful. This is the most powerful statement I have seen about this, seriously.

[info]icarus_after

2 years ago

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[info]smilesweetirony

October 21 2009, 22:49:19 UTC 2 years ago

do you feel that someone who would be searching using this term would not also search with some of the other interest words (ftm, transgender)?</i>

[info]recordplayeron

October 21 2009, 22:51:03 UTC 2 years ago

When I first came out, I only knew the word "tranny". The idea of being "ftm" or "transgender" was beyond my scope.

[info]smilesweetirony

2 years ago

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[info]phineus

2 years ago

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[info]murdercake

October 21 2009, 22:56:33 UTC 2 years ago

Personally, I searched for other terms when I started looking for online info/support (like ftm, trans man, transgender). I can only speak for myself :(

[info]xevolrebx

2 years ago

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[info]murdercake

2 years ago

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[info]gender_euphoric

October 21 2009, 23:38:45 UTC 2 years ago

I don't think we've touched the interests since ftmichael was a mod. I could be wrong.

[info]homo_impetus

October 22 2009, 04:19:05 UTC 2 years ago

I think you are probably right. That was like what? 4 years ago?

[info]gender_euphoric

2 years ago

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[info]homo_impetus

2 years ago

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[info]gender_euphoric

2 years ago

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[info]homo_impetus

2 years ago

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[info]homo_impetus

2 years ago

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[info]harris06

2 years ago

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[info]xevolrebx

2 years ago

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[info]wellinever

2 years ago

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[info]homo_impetus

2 years ago

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[info]smilesweetirony

2 years ago

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[info]mamoruguardian

October 22 2009, 02:04:44 UTC 2 years ago

Maybe we should vote on it?

I hate that word, I was in an argument with my brother's g/f who is really cool along with my brother, however she insisted that the local homeless Austin cross-dresser was a tranny. Although it could very well be true, I was under the impression that he identified as male and just liked to dress in women's clothing while growing his beard out as a social performance of sorts - especially since our motto is "keep Austin weird". The point was she started stating facts about how the word transvestite originated and instead of flat out saying, "I'm challenging you on this only because had you told me I was a tranny 2 years ago when I labeled myself as a butch lesbian that really would've offended me. Worse than that, if you start calling me a tranny I will be pissed because I personally associate that word with drag queens or kings, which I am not!"

Sorry, I never had a chance to get that off my chest... =/

[info]gender_euphoric

October 22 2009, 04:23:17 UTC 2 years ago

mod note

Austin cross-dresser was a tranny. Although it could very well be true
tranny is a horrible, violent slur used to oppress trans women. do not use it as slang to mean trans woman here. there are trans women in this comm, btw.

[info]mamoruguardian

2 years ago

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[info]gender_euphoric

2 years ago

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[info]mamoruguardian

2 years ago

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[info]tinamou

October 22 2009, 04:32:19 UTC 2 years ago

I could get behind leaving it as a search term, but adding some content to the community info section on offensive language stating that it's not acceptable here, especially when used to reference trans men, and including a link to a blog post somewhere explaining why.

[info]tinamou

October 22 2009, 04:34:43 UTC 2 years ago

That is, explaining that it's offensive when used against trans women who don't use it themselves and that it's not ok for trans men to use it.

[info]mercurychaos

October 22 2009, 05:09:11 UTC 2 years ago

I would be all right with keeping it in, if only so people will find us when they search it. I do think we should have something in the rules/stuff that people are supposed to read before they join about it being a slur, because I see a lot of people trying to "reclaim" it when it's not our word to reclaim.

[info]jeomg

October 22 2009, 08:57:32 UTC 2 years ago

i think you should consider those who actually use the word tranny to identify themselves. whether one agrees with transmen using the word or not, there are some guys out there who do identify that way, and taking it out of the interests could be offensive to them. i think that perhaps a disclaimer would be a good idea, but i feel like even that should mention the fact that there are guys out there who identify with the word. same with dyke and butch and all the other ones that have been mentioned.

[info]gymx

October 22 2009, 21:26:27 UTC 2 years ago

Personally? If some dude if appropriating "tranny", i don't care if taking it out of the interests offends him or not. That doesn't mean I want it removed, but the feelings of those guys do not play a part in my opinion.

[info]homo_impetus

2 years ago

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[info]smilesweetirony

October 22 2009, 16:41:24 UTC 2 years ago

an additional suggestion

to anyone: what would you think of having an open call for additional "interests" to add, maybe with some criteria to guide the suggestions?

[info]homo_impetus

October 22 2009, 16:44:53 UTC 2 years ago

Re: an additional suggestion

This is actually a really awesome suggestion.

[info]xevolrebx

October 22 2009, 17:59:03 UTC 2 years ago

Re: an additional suggestion

+1

[info]hydr0cl0r1de

October 25 2009, 05:29:28 UTC 2 years ago

who does the word tranny belong to? why can't it be reclaimed?

[info]xevolrebx

October 25 2009, 23:43:18 UTC 2 years ago

It is a sentiment with which I disagree, but because it's a word that is primarily used against visible transwomen, and which is primarily "reclaimed" by not visible transmen. I feel like I am hurt enough by our lack of visibility to reclaim a word that is one of few outside associations with our experience, but also respect that people appreciate it not being used in the space. I also only started to identify that way after a good friend of mine (who is also a transwoman) started using it in a way that spoke of reclamation.

I'll also add that the space in which one is using said word is also really important. If I'm not out to all the people I'm with I would never use it, for instance, because coming from someone perceived as a white male it's inappropriate.

To me it has positive associations because I use it only when I feel comfortable in a space that I'm also out in.. This tends to be trans space, or at least space that is open to talking about gender variance, and where I'm close enough friends with everyone included that I'm out to them.
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